What is 'character' in a bike or car in your view?

[Bad Billy]

This thread is the result of @DD67 posts about changing his fun car from a Mazda MX5 to an SL Merc & his first impressions.

So what adds to a vehicles 'character' in your view, my personal perception for bikes is that I have to feel an emotional connection with the machine, being, silky smooth & easy to ride aren't high on my list, but they may be on yours?

I prefer V Twins & Triples to 4 cylinders whether in line or V4, something about the rawness of power delivery, the exhaust note, the vibration etc, I raced a 600 IL4 & never got on with it, switched to a V2 and felt at home & confident on it straight away. I am also drawn to the more quirky looks of my Superduke than I am to a S1000R or Tuono V4, although both bikes are in the same ballpark with power and spec, again this is my personal preference.

So I am interested to know what bikes/cars do it for you and why?

 

[Don the Don]

For me a car has become nothing more than a mere tool I know that anything sport related in both bike and car these days would be wrapped around a lamp post or my sudden demise as I don't have the skills for speed, I did enjoy my old Mercs and 740 Volvos basically because of the size luxury and presence of them, and they where rear wheel drive fun in the snow and ice,
Bikes I found my Jap bikes four cylinder and v twins nice but predictable and reliable but never stimulating, on the other hand the Buell Uly was a machine with so much torque the front end spent most time in the air and handled and gave a feeling of uncertainty will we get there or not, it was exiting the same with my old Guzzi's awesome machines handled, braked, and more torque that made them fun but with dodgy electrics in the day, My present Triumphs are right for me as I have got older just enough power, just the right Torque, and speed and the right vibes and road presence.

 

[Sarky B’stard]

Cars acquire character when they lose the roof! It is about connecting with the landscape..... which is why bikes have a head start. Mostly it comes down to responsiveness for me. Not necessarily massive power but knowing what is going on underneath you by connecting with chassis and controls. You know if you are riding a single or multi. Frankly my Ford triple is indistinguishable to drive from a four. That is a tribute to the engineering but the very opposite of character.
So, for me, characterful cars are at the Caterham end of the spectrum whereas bikes lose theirs the more cruiser like they become. And then there’s the potatoes.

 

[MartytheMartian]

Hmmm I find it hard to think of a modern car that really has any character for me. I do love the looks and sound of older (30's, 40's, 50's) cars. An old fella I knew had a pea green late 1940's rover that he had owned most of his adult life and I understood why. The car was just a wee sweetie!

In bikes character is looks and sound and that feeling that, when the chips are down, it's working with you and not trying to kill you. The Bonnie's have real character. They're not fast, they're not big or sleek but I find myself giving them a wee pat when I am in the shed and I feel a wee swelling of pride in the chest that I own them. My Sprint RS, well the guy who sold me it started it tweaked the throttle and the music of that three cylinder motor sang out to me like a spot of Black Sabbath! I loved the crouched menacing look of the 955 Daytona and only wish they had done one in a colour like, for example, metallic Turquoise - Now that would be a sweet looking ride!

 

[chas]

It's a tricky one to pinpoint and depends on personal prefs.
Whether car or bike, the engine is the main factor for me. It has to feel animate. I haven't ridden or driven anything electric and i fear it will feel 'toy' when i do.
I've mentioned before on here how I couldn't get excited by Exups, preferring a Gixxer that required a bit more input.

 

[Bad Billy]

Hmmm I find it hard to think of a modern car that really has any character for me. I do love the looks and sound of older (30's, 40's, 50's) cars. An old fella I knew had a pea green late 1940's rover that he had owned most of his adult life and I understood why. The car was just a wee sweetie!

In bikes character is looks and sound and that feeling that, when the chips are down, it's working with you and not trying to kill you. The Bonnie's have real character. They're not fast, they're not big or sleek but I find myself giving them a wee pat when I am in the shed and I feel a wee swelling of pride in the chest that I own them. My Sprint RS, well the guy who sold me it started it tweaked the throttle and the music of that three cylinder motor sang out to me like a spot of Black Sabbath! I loved the crouched menacing look of the 955 Daytona and only wish they had done one in a colour like, for example, metallic Turquoise - Now that would be a sweet looking ride!

Cars have never really done it for me, but if I could have anything it would be an E type Jag, convertible Canary Yellow, a friend of my Dad had one, when I was a kid had a ride in it & thought it was the coolest thing ever! Now they are stupid money, probably very unreliable, not at all practical but that doesn't stop me wanting one!

The most attached I have become to any bike that I have owned was my original 990 Superduke, bought it new but heavily discounted as in 2007 they brought out an 'improved' model that year, owned it 5 years, sold it because I was desperate for money & it was a toy, sometimes doing the right thing is a bitch!
That bike had character & soul, it got me in love with biking again after my near career ending crash in 2006, it was comfortable enough to ride down to the Alps and fast enough to keep up with the sportsbikes when we got there!

If you ask most people what their favorite bike is, they will probably say the one they ride now, things move on, bikes improve, you convince yourself you need all the bells & whistles, but do you?

 

[chas]

I like bikes to be quite basic, add lightness and simplicate. Bluetooth connectivity is not what i ride a bike for.

 

[MartytheMartian]

It is funny actually. I always love swimming against the tide and the whole tech thing (riding modes, ABS, myriad of sensors, fuel injection and on-board computers) takes away all the fun and edginess of it for me. I was thinking the other day about the braking upgrades that I enquired about on here and it occurred to me that I prefer softer brakes and I have known more guys who have come a cropper because of good brakes, particularly the front, than bad ones although I would imagine that the risks of locking up are somewhat negated now by ABS etc. I prefer brakes with more 'feel' and more forgiveness when you grab too much. Some of the bikes I have loved in the past have been the scariest, ropiest bikes to ride but I felt like they always looked after me.

On the Jaguar front I have a soft spot for the late seventies, early eighties Jags like the XJ6. My grandparents never drove anything but Jaguars and those models were my earliest memories of real luxury cars and they always had a barrel shaped wood and silver biscuit barrel in it full of Clarnico mints or those Italian caramels with the hard icing coating on them. My grandfather drove with such extreme caution and the car floated along beautifully where my Grandmother drove like Stirling Moss and the car behaved impeccably, even when she didn't slow down for the big roundabout outside Ayr and she went straight over it instead of around it.

 

[Doc Strange]

Character = something a bit different that sticks in your memory.

So my 68 MGB GT had it, but none of my practical 3 series BMW's have had it.

I liked my Blade, but I can't say it had 'character', whereas the triple in the Daytona means it has.

While completely ubiquitous, I feel the GS has it - the way that big twin starts and ticks over, and even its Brutalist looks, give it something unique.

Simply 'not working well' does not bestow character - my Austin 1100 didn't have it, and I wouldn't say my Meridan Bonnie had, although if it had ever worked properly, I might have discovered some!

My Guzzi had it, again because of that unique engine and therefore feel.

DS

 

[Sarky B’stard]

I like bikes to be quite basic, add lightness and simplicate. Bluetooth connectivity is not what i ride a bike for.

Wassat?

 

[Scrappy]

Cars just don't do it for me anymore, my car is just for practicallity when I can't use a bike. It might be different if I tried an Arial Atom, a Caterham or the like, but I would not last long before running out of talent quite quickly I think .

Character is difficult to define, but I think to me character is when a bike does not give everything away on the first date, but you learn more about it, and get more out of it, each time you ride it. Also imperfection, when a bike is capable and rewarding to ride but you feel like it requires some input and/or familiarity which rewards you as you gain that knowledge of the bike. I get enjoyment and reward from learning and improving, when you feel at one with your bike within your ability and the imperfections of the bike... if that makes any sense

I don't need to get from A to B in the quickest possible time, and I don't want a bike that is overloaded with electrickery to disguise every aspect of my lack of talent.

 

[chas]

Wassat?

Fucked if I know

 

[DD67]

Great idea for a thread @Bad Billy

As this is a bike forum. I'm not surprised at the amount of comments along the lines of..."Cars don't do it for me, they are just practical transport in the bad weather"...
For many years I felt exactly the same way. I'd buy the best car I could find for £500 at the beginning of October with 12 months MOT & 6 months tax.
Then sell it at the end of March with 6 months MOT & no tax. I never lost a penny on any of them! Sometimes even made a few quid.
They served their purpose during the winter then it was back to bikes full time

As for what ticks my boxes with vehicles?
Bikes have to feel solid & planted. My bike riding skills have never given Rossi sleepless nights. Sliding the rear end of a bike would have me in need of clean underwear!
With cars it's the total opposite. I love cars with zero driver aids. Hence my many years spent in lightweight kit cars. Some had absolutely ridiculous power to weight ratios, all were rear wheel drive & none had servo assisted brakes or PAS. Let alone ABS, traction control or driver modes etc etc.
Not the most practical vehicles to say the least, but f#ckin hell they were fun!
Then I decided I was willing to sacrifice some of the raw fun factor. In return for some real world practicality with our MX-5. That worked out really well & I never regretted the switch from kit cars. Now myself & Mrs DD have switched to something even more practical & brimming with tech gadgets.
She loves it, & so do I but I'll miss the raw feeling of the kit cars far more than I did after the switch to the MX-5.

A little story about my dislike of "Raw" bikes...
I bought a GPZ900R when my mate had an RD350LC. I let him have a go on the GPZ & he slagged it off. He reckoned it was boring?
Apparently predictable brakes/steering & power delivery didn't float his boat?
He insisted I ride his RD & all his criticism of the GPZ would make sense.
So I did, & what an utter piece of shit it was!
No power 70% of the time, then all of its power exactly when you didn't want it to chime in!
If that's 2 wheeled character/soul, you can keep it!

 

[MartytheMartian]

Our current car is a 2020 Renault Kadjar diesel - all the bells and whistles going and is even capable of parking itself do I'm told. I took delivery of it, checked all the gears and pedals were in the right place and off we went. I haven't so much as glanced at the manual for the car, never let it park itself and find the reversing cameras more difficult to judge than turning around to look the old fashioned way. It does what it does well, is economical, reliable, comfortable, handles well and has a moderate amount of power. From an operational point of view the only negative is that visibility trying to look out and back through the driver side window is awful and cut off by the door pillar and, being 'tall in the saddle' I find the rear view mirror can obscure some of my forward vision. Other than that it's just a car and it doesn't have any sparkle. A few years from now I will probably trade it in again for another Kadjar as they are decent workhorses.

 

[Bad Billy]

Great idea for a thread @Bad Billy

As this is a bike forum. I'm not surprised at the amount of comments along the lines of..."Cars don't do it for me, they are just practical transport in the bad weather"...
For many years I felt exactly the same way. I'd buy the best car I could find for £500 at the beginning of October with 12 months MOT & 6 months tax.
Then sell it at the end of March with 6 months MOT & no tax. I never lost a penny on any of them! Sometimes even made a few quid.
They served their purpose during the winter then it was back to bikes full time

As for what ticks my boxes with vehicles?
Bikes have to feel solid & planted. My bike riding skills have never given Rossi sleepless nights. Sliding the rear end of a bike would have me in need of clean underwear!
With cars it's the total opposite. I love cars with zero driver aids. Hence my many years spent in lightweight kit cars. Some had absolutely ridiculous power to weight ratios, all were rear wheel drive & none had servo assisted brakes or PAS. Let alone ABS, traction control or driver modes etc etc.
Not the most practical vehicles to say the least, but f#ckin hell they were fun!
Then I decided I was willing to sacrifice some of the raw fun factor. In return for some real world practicality with our MX-5. That worked out really well & I never regretted the switch from kit cars. Now myself & Mrs DD have switched to something even more practical & brimming with tech gadgets.
She loves it, & so do I but I'll miss the raw feeling of the kit cars far more than I did after the switch to the MX-5.

A little story about my dislike of "Raw" bikes...
I bought a GPZ900R when my mate had an RD350LC. I let him have a go on the GPZ & he slagged it off. He reckoned it was boring?
Apparently predictable brakes/steering & power delivery didn't float his boat?
He insisted I ride his RD & all his criticism of the GPZ would make sense.
So I did, & what an utter piece of shit it was!
No power 70% of the time, then all of its power exactly when you didn't want it to chime in!
If that's 2 wheeled character/soul, you can keep it!

I once had a go at the Brands Hatch racing experience, was more than 30 yrs ago, XR2 with an instructor for the first bit of the day, IF you were considered safe Formula First single seater for the 2 part of the day.
This was a corporate event organised by a mate who ran a successful business & I got a last minute invite as someone dropped out, it was mega bucks & I certainly would never of spent the money on it, but free ... yes please!

In the first part, I drove with instructor riding shotgun, I thought I was going well, all 4 wheels sliding into Druids etc, then we pull into the pits for a chat.
He asks if I have ever been rally driving? I say no but I was actually still competing in Sidecar Cross, he then says that explains a lot? While I thought I was fast, I really wasn't, as spending time sliding sideways into a corner was not what I should be doing! He then took me round in the XR2 & showed me how to do it, I fucking shat my pants, the bloke was so quick, he kept looking at me explaining what he was doing & why, all I wanted him to do was look where he was going FFS!

Anyway long story short, with his help, I attained the standard to have a go in the formula first, I guess this would be of similar performance to one of Jez's kit cars? I had a great time in it, it was as twitchy as you like on a damp track after it rained at lunch time, I still had the 'if you leave the track, your day is over' ringing in my ears, but had a serious moment coming out of Druids heading down the hill as I gave it too much gas on the exit, really lucky not to lose it.

I enjoyed the day but it did teach me that for whatever reason my skill set better suits motorcycles, the mate that organised the day who was also my sidercar passenger for racing went on to do club saloon car racing, but he was shit on a motorcycle?

 

[DD67]

I did something similar when I was approx 19yrs old Billy.
Like all teenagers I was cocky as f#ck & thought I could show James Hunt how to drive

It was the John Watson school of performance driving at Silverstone. We started off in MG Montego's (that dates the story eh! )
Then moved on to Formula Ford single seaters. They looked like small F1 cars & I think they were 1600cc? They didn't half shift though!

I was about 5th out of 20 in terms of skills in the Montego's. As a relatively new driver, I was more than happy with that.
Then we swapped into the single seaters & it started to rain.
I was the only biker in the group. So I was the only one used to clearing spray from the visor of a lid.
I absolutely wiped the floor with the other guys!
Several got over taken with my right arm hanging out of the car (as best as I could in that cramped cockpit) just to make it look like I was on a Sunday bimble in the countryside

I did get a boll#cking for overtaking though. We were told not to because of the weather conditions. But my plea of..."C'mon mate, some of them were crawling around!"...
Was accepted as justification for the overtaking.

 

[GaleForceEight]

Character....

is a combination of feelings, and varies from rider to rider as well as bike to bike.

It could be argued that ‘character’ is a telltale of a bike’s failings rather than what makes it good, since the best bike technically will have no sound, no vibration, and ultimately no ‘soul’.

My BSA has ‘character’ in that it vibrates, requires an inordinate amount of maintenance to keep it running compared to modern bikes, lacks creature comforts.... but it has ‘soul’.

My BMW does the job it was designed to do. It eats miles, it does it efficiently. It has good fuel consumption - but it lacks ‘soul’ in terms of sound and feel.

So how would I determine ‘character’?

Maybe the tactile and audible parameters that identifies a particular machine. For example the whine of a triple, the thump of a big single, the twitchiness of a boxer twin, the reverb from a v twin.... THOSE are character.

Different people like different things from their bikes so what is character for one person may be a curse for another. So I would say character can be objective from a technical perspective and subjective from a personal perspective.

To define anything that is subjective is really a grey area, so I would say ‘character’ is the thing about your perception of your bike that individualises it and gives it an identity.

 

[Bad Billy]

Character....

is a combination of feelings, and varies from rider to rider as well as bike to bike.

It could be argued that ‘character’ is a telltale of a bike’s failings rather than what makes it good, since the best bike technically will have no sound, no vibration, and ultimately no ‘soul’.

My BSA has ‘character’ in that it vibrates, requires an inordinate amount of maintenance to keep it running compared to modern bikes, lacks creature comforts.... but it has ‘soul’.

My BMW does the job it was designed to do. It eats miles, it does it efficiently. It has good fuel consumption - but it lacks ‘soul’ in terms of sound and feel.

So how would I determine ‘character’?

Maybe the tactile and audible parameters that identifies a particular machine. For example the whine of a triple, the thump of a big single, the twitchiness of a boxer twin, the reverb from a v twin.... THOSE are character.

Different people like different things from their bikes so what is character for one person may be a curse for another. So I would say character can be objective from a technical perspective and subjective from a personal perspective.

To define anything that is subjective is really a grey area, so I would say ‘character’ is the thing about your perception of your bike that individualises it and gives it an identity.

I am truly amazed GF8, when I started the thread I never envisaged a proper grown up, bonafide answer like that, well done, as for the rest of you Herberts on here, read & learn, well learning to read would be a start!

 

[Sarky B’stard]

I am truly amazed GF8, when I started the thread I never envisaged a proper grown up, bonafide answer like that, well done, as for the rest of you Herberts on here, read & learn, well learning to read would be a start!

Don’t be fooled. He cut’n’paste most of that from some recherché porn site.

 

[MartytheMartian]

Well I need to revise my 'character' assessment a little. Despite the grey and damp weather here today I decided to take my black Sprint RS out just to see if my poking and prodding of the air temperature sensor on top of the air box (which I believed was the culprit) had solved the problem I had had with the engine conking out when there was no throttle input. This problem does indeed seem to have been solved. Anyway, now I have stopped digressing, I will get on with what I wanted to say. Yes the Trump Sprint does have bags of character but I got the distinct feeling that, on damp roads with loose gravel, cracks, bumps and other crap, when I opened the throttle full she was seriously thinking about killing me! One particular moment was, haring up a long straight at around 110mph+ and my visor suddenly fogged (even though it's a pinlock one) and refused to clear with a bend looming on the horizon. I can't deny that I also get a bit nervy on her when going over damp mud and gravel, especially going downhill on the single track road back home.

I think that, to a certain extent racers are born. I knew a fella when I was a teen, pal of my brothers, and he would happily wheelie his R1 at full throttle (he and a buddy, also riding an R1, were the focus of a police chase including helicopter once) and both escaped. The reports at the time were along the lines that 'two reckless bikers were spotted by the Police Helicopter returning from a call as it passed over the Irvine bypass. Both motorcyclists were said to be travelling well in excess of 100mph on one wheel at the time they were spotted. Partway through the chase the helicopter had to withdraw due to low fuel and, despite roadblocks in place throughout Ayrshire Police failed to apprehend the culprits". The other lad was spotted hiding with his bike in the trees by Irvine Crematorium where he stayed for much of the night until he felt the coast was clear while my brothers pal shot off through Kilmarnock and into Glasgow then up and round Inverclyde and back into Ayrshire. As he had been done numerous times in the past on four wheels he was absolutely not prepared to get caught and lose his licence. That guy could ride off the edge of the tyres no matter what the conditions and never fell off once.