MartytheMartian
Legendary Knight
I don't doubt that there is a proxy war against Russia but I don't mind as I think that Putin is a dickhead who needs to be slaughtered, I want to see the Ukrainians get all their territory back and Russia needs a good kicking. The 'one worlders' may well have a hand in that but I think the fight against them is a separate thing from the fight against the Russians and, more than likely in the near future, the Chinese.
Scrappy
Legendary Knight
IMO idiots like Boris are pushing us ever closer to WW3. If the US and the UK are supplying training, intelligence, advanced weapons, tanks and maybe soon fighter aircraft how is that not taking part in a war against Russia. They keep prodding the Bear and that has, some would argue, caused both the invasion of Crimea and then the major part of Ukraine. If they keep prodding, or now smacking Russia how long before Putin thinks fuck it they've more than asked for it.
The US has seemingly admitted it was behind the sabotage of Russia's gas pipeline. Putin might be a bastard, but if you were an unbiased observer over the last decade or so, how could you blame him for retaliating.
The US has seemingly admitted it was behind the sabotage of Russia's gas pipeline. Putin might be a bastard, but if you were an unbiased observer over the last decade or so, how could you blame him for retaliating.
MartytheMartian
Legendary Knight
Personally I'm all for declaring open war on Russia. Never been a fan of the Russki's and Putin in particular is unadulterated filth with 'little man' syndrome who needs exterminated. Yes the West has problems with greed, Trannies, immigration etc. etc but that don't excuse the Russki's for what they have done to Ukraine and what they would do to us given half a chance. Don't kid yourself that the Russki's can be our friends, they can't as they have a mindset that is alien to us and confrontation was inevitable - Churchill knew that way back at the end of WWII and they haven't changed since despite the fall of Communism they are still the same people.
Doc Strange
Legendary Knight
Don't forget the invasion of Georgia.
The West didn't handle the collapse of the USSR well, but Putin's adventures are to do with his desire for wealth and power and his crusade to re-establish the USSR.
More quislings in the media are trying to blame the West for this as things get more serious - but there have always been that sort; they would've wanted to appease Hitler too.
DS
Scrappy
Legendary Knight
I'm not an apologist for Putin by any means, far from it, and I agree that appeasement does not work. But I believe there is difference between the west being strong opposition, instead of a provocative threat. As I understand it the west made agreements and promises to Gorbachev that NATO would not expand into the former USSR nations surrounding Russia, but they did, as did the EU, and we all know the EU's lust for power and wealth, so the west are just as guilty of expansionism as Putin's Russia. Plus then there is the west's alleged involvement with regime change in Ukraine, and the wooing from some for Ukraine to join both NATO and the EU.
As I said Putin is a bastard and a gangster, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but then I do not trust our government, the EU or the current US regime. Recent events have highlighted the incredible unscrupulous nature and behavior of our government, and the extreme level of propaganda and psy ops we are subjected to.
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Doc Strange
Legendary Knight
Weren't trying to imply you were an apologist for Putin, simply commenting on what is happening more in the media.
The issue is that is the West being provocative when country after country wants to join NATO or the EU? Does any country have a veto over what another can do? Russia wants vassal states surrounding it, and doesn't have the right to demand that - no country does.
The funny thing is that as Russia alienates the West, it is setting itself up to be China's vassal - something the Chinese must be finding hilarious!
DS
The issue is that is the West being provocative when country after country wants to join NATO or the EU? Does any country have a veto over what another can do? Russia wants vassal states surrounding it, and doesn't have the right to demand that - no country does.
The funny thing is that as Russia alienates the West, it is setting itself up to be China's vassal - something the Chinese must be finding hilarious!
DS
Don the Don
Legendary Knight
Giving them the goods is the easy part it's the Training, spares,and other support that is a major facture all that on how many different types? We are short of equipment ourselves, are we going to replace those challenger Tanks for the latest type and how many? reducing our stock appears to be the idea they have, As for Aircraft they could send them the old Tranche one Typhoons [just fighter not bomber] they are a bag of shite anyway and as for spares we could not get them from British waste of space so good luck supplying the Ukranians, we ourselves don't have a pot to piss in and will find our commitment to any future conflicts [we are involved in] a struggle, But ours is not to reason why, dah di dah di dah those at the top know better "Titter"
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MartytheMartian
Legendary Knight
Yep I think the UK is pretty much in a similar state to how it was at the outbreak of WWII - Pitifully weak in both arms and army. My grandfather was a member of the British Army at the outbreak of WWII and was extremely fortunate that he was selected and sent back to the UK for officer training just before the collapse and retreat and he told me that they simply hadn't anything to oppose the Germans with. Anti tank rifles that were only effective at almost point blank range and were a bugger to load and fire and tanks that were all but useless. The Yanks are the major players in supplying armaments to Ukraine just as they were in WWII when they kept the Russians in what they needed to fight the Germans. as they simply have the ability to produce the materiel but I think the UK, thanks to old Boris more than anyone else, has given an impression of 'leading the way' in the media that forced the USA to follow suit. I doubt the USA would have been quite so forthcoming if it hadn't been for the UK shouting that they were fully behind Ukraine and willing to help them with whatever it took and I suspect that, if Rishi Sunak tried to 'rally the troops' in the USA the way Boris has he would be laughed at. The Yanks seem to admire Boris in a way that few in the UK do.
gazzatriumph
Legendary Knight
We are fed the same propaganda about Russia as the vaccines.
Don the Don
Legendary Knight
Don't forget the yanks have the Boneyard at Davis Monthan Tucson Arizona with thousands of Aircraft mothballed they could supply Ukraine with allsorts, BUT they too are feeling the pinch and these things cost money "Bad business to give things away"
Scrappy
Legendary Knight
But the US arms industry spends a lot of money lobbying politicians, and many members of the US senate/congress have interests in the arms industry, any weapons given to Ukraine have to be replaced, therefore profitable for the arms industry, therefore profitable for anyone with shares in businesses involved, and profitable for anyone receiving backhanders from the arms industry.
Don the Don
Legendary Knight
That's true mate, but as with us there is a defence budget and each service tries to outdo each other for the largest slice to aquire their desired equipment, As with the F22 Raptor fighter it was a limited production as it was deemed to be too expensive so older types are kept going, congress will try and shut down any project that shows problems or have a few losses like the osprey tilt rotor aircraft a good usefull machine that had a few teething troubles but the Marine corp had to fight to keep as hot on their heels where the other services wanting that revenue for their desires.
The difference also comes in the way the USA procure equipment the best and value for money can get the bid, we tend to give it to the same old bunch like waste of space and babcocks. It is good I must admit to see us buying yank stuff over the old euro consortium as that was a logistics nightmare, As for the yanks needing to replace older F16's the Boneyard is full of them they are even turning them into Drones to shoot down they are deemed as surplus that's why they have been offering them to all ex warsaw pact countrys
This'll got down like a shit in a swimming pool 
...
BBC News - Putin arrest warrant issued over war crime allegations
...BBC News - Putin arrest warrant issued over war crime allegations
Putin arrest warrant issued over war crime allegations
The Russian president is wanted by the ICC for alleged war crimes during his Ukraine invasion.
www.bbc.co.uk
Scrappy
Legendary Knight
This'll got down like a shit in a swimming pool
BBC News - Putin arrest warrant issued over war crime allegations
Putin arrest warrant issued over war crime allegations
The Russian president is wanted by the ICC for alleged war crimes during his Ukraine invasion.www.bbc.co.uk
They are giving him no way out, and increasingly pushing him to take more drastic action.
I'm convinced the West is trying to start WW3, increasing the rhetoric and antagonising Russia and China into conflict. The WEF (or whoever) trying to establish their 'New World Order'.
It's so hypocritical that an arrest warrant is issued against Putin, but Tony Blair is still a free man and working for the EU and a member of the WEF
We're all doomed!
