What have you done to your bike today....

Sarky B’stard

Sarky B’stard

Legendary Knight
I don't buy the idea lumps of metal get hooked on sniffing goo!

It can mask an underlying problem and, like excess petrol cause bore wash that takes the splash lubrication off the cylinder walls. If the big end is threatened the problem is deep South in the oil pump and galleries and oil itself.

It's just a volatile wake up call that your plugs can't ignore. 🔥

Are you thinking of the little grey pepper pot on Bedford 4T dashboards for ether cans?
 
chas

chas

Legendary Knight
Don the Don said:
then you will be saying this
View attachment 16754

The trouble with these things is an engine can become addictive to it if used too often and then rely on it, I have seen it knock the bottom ends out with too much use
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I know there's a chance that it dets rather than burns so will give a bit of a shock esp if you're using it on an oil burner with high comp, it's def not daily use but if you've any sort of spark it'll fire (maybe not start but the firing will give a clue to where the prob lies)

I hope @MartytheMartian you know we're not taking any sort of piss or judgement when we're suggesting maybe obvious solutions. If we lived local we'd be kicking your tyres in person, making stupid suggestions and demanding tea every half hour.

Be grateful it's virtual ;)

I think it's avoiding that tunnel vision that we all fall prey to when trying to get to the nub of a problem. For me I really would take the plugs out of your running sprint and try the Daytona with those. Maybe as a next step the coil packs too (if they're common). Wet plugs indicate that you're getting mix in there. My gut is that it's not catastrophic.

But I won't contribute further till you've tried a change of plugs :D
 
MartytheMartian

MartytheMartian

Legendary Knight
Ah well you see @chas I have already tried using the set of plugs that came out of the running Sprint that I dismantled, the coil packs from it, the throttle bodies from it as well, the TPS from it, the injectors/fuel rail and even the fuel pump and fuel filter. None of those substitutions have changed a thing. I am glad of all suggestions and I have been racking my brains on this one. The obvious possibilities don't seem to fit so I am thinking there is something unusual going on. A shot of 'Easy Start' may not be a bad idea and I had already been toying with somehow spraying fuel in to see if the injectors were perhaps doing something peculiar.
 
chas

chas

Legendary Knight
Because we're all borderline altzheimers here can you do a bit of a revisit?

When did it start pissing about? Did it start ok before winter?
 
MartytheMartian

MartytheMartian

Legendary Knight
Well, I was trying to run her up until the fan would come on at least once a fortnight throughout the winter. About February or so she suddenly seemed to become a little harder to start which I put down to a slightly colder spell and put the battery on charge. Then, next time or two she started fine although she was never as quick to start as the Sprint but I'm told the more highly tuned version of the motor used in the Daytona has a reputation as a difficult starter. Let's say that the next time, maybe a early April or so she took ages to start and sounded like she was only running on two cylinders but tried her again later that day and she was back to normal. Since then she would be very awkward to start but, once started and warmed up she would start no problem but, allowed to cool down again she would then be a bitch to start once more and, finally she simply refused to start at all although, for a brief period as I mentioned previously she sprang back to life and ran normally until the fan came on at which point I stopped her and, next day she wouldn't start and hasn't even sounded like she's trying since. During that time I've changed the plugs and coil packs, then the injectors, then the throttle bodies, changed fuel pump and filter and even tried the IACV valve from my Sprint which I know is working perfectly all to no avail.

My next move is to check that all three coils are sparking, pull the injector bodies/fuel rail from the head and see if it's squirting properly when I prod the starter. That may throw up something I suppose. After that I can program the spare ECM I have, it's a Sprint one but I can give it the same map as I have on the Daytona. After that the easy options will be to swap the sub-loom that feeds the injectors, IACV, TPS and Crank position sensor then I suppose I can swap all the Lambda, Crank position and Coolant sensors for my spares. If none of those are the culprit then I am left with valves or camchain somehow having slipped. I doubt the camchain would be at fault as, from what I gather on these motors the valve timing being even slightly out would mash the valves into the pistons and there was no undue camchain noise even when she was running lumpy. None of it is really difficult or tricky just time consuming and a pain in the ass. I do wonder if the Lambda sensor could be the culprit. Possibly carbon buildup from running on the spot without a good outing?
 
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chas

chas

Legendary Knight
I'm really of the mind there is no catastrophic failure or major change from running/ not running. I think you may be on a line with the sooting of something like the Lambda although it sticks in the gut to think it may be from the cycle of running it up on idle. But that's (the running up) the only change from when it ran to not running.

Because I'm lazy I would first off try starting it with a hose of Easy Start but if that fucker fires, take it for a good 'Italian tune up' and run it on the road for a good few (30-50) miles and clear the bugger out.
 
Don the Don

Don the Don

Legendary Knight
Sarky B’stard said:
I don't buy the idea lumps of metal get hooked on sniffing goo!

It can mask an underlying problem and, like excess petrol cause bore wash that takes the splash lubrication off the cylinder walls. If the big end is threatened the problem is deep South in the oil pump and galleries and oil itself.

It's just a volatile wake up call that your plugs can't ignore. 🔥

Are you thinking of the little grey pepper pot on Bedford 4T dashboards for ether cans?
Click to expand...
I have seen machines hooked on it and yes they are diesel rather than petrol and also had to rebuild a few mainly heavy commercial and plant after long term use, short term will be no problem just stating what I have seen and instructed by oldtimers
 
Big Sandy

Big Sandy

Legendary Knight
Rebuilt rear caliper again, all stainless fittings, slides, pins etc. New seals again. Polished the pistons. Pistons pop in and out nicely with a wee bit compressed air.

New stainless braided hose, all refitted. A twat to bleed. Either way. Found the easiest method was to take the hose back off the caliper, seal it between finger and thumb, then press the pedal, allow air out then seal before releasing the pedal again. That worked. Brakes now releasing and gripping as they should. So far... Must have pressed it on and off a hunnert times to see if I could get it to stick.

Indicator. Sigh. The one delivered is an inch longer than the other side. Fitted it anyway, need an indicator, but ordered another. 50/50 chance of it being right... If it is too small, I'll swap the long one, too long I'll swap the short one.

And now? It's pissing down.

Oh, and just for fun.... Bike is on a stand, and I moved it over to one side for more room to work. I am catching the end of the can with my arm as I'm reaching in to the top of the hose. Arm's nipping... Feels like I'm getting hairs pulled out on the brackets. No, not so. The battery is on a maintenance charge, and I'm completing the circuit to ground. Bloody stings too!
 
MartytheMartian

MartytheMartian

Legendary Knight
I swapped the battery over with my Sprint RS @Big Sandy and she can turn over for ages on the battery before the starter begins to audibly slow down so I'm guessing that it's not the problem. I have read that the Dayton is known as a difficult starter at the best of times and that higher rated batteries and higher torque starter motors have been tried by people in the past with little success. The funny thing is that, on the Daytona Facebook page there is a guy with a very similar problem on his bike and he says he has been through and replaced just about everything, had valves checked etc. and still not solved the problem. It sounds like this is some tricky, dodgy little bugger of a fault to solve. My suspicion is that something is messing with the ECM and, as a result it is failing in it's management duties but doesn't realise it. Sort of like every manager I have ever worked for!
 
chas

chas

Legendary Knight
Big Sandy said:
New stainless braided hose, all refitted. A twat to bleed. Either way. Found the easiest method was to take the hose back off the caliper, seal it between finger and thumb, then press the pedal, allow air out then seal before releasing the pedal again.
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I've bled new hoses into the system like that else you're there for eternity.

Whether that it's what *I* do is vindication or condemnation is another discussion :D
 
chas

chas

Legendary Knight
MartytheMartian said:
I swapped the battery over with my Sprint RS @Big Sandy and she can turn over for ages on the battery before the starter begins to audibly slow down so I'm guessing that it's not the problem. I have read that the Dayton is known as a difficult starter at the best of times and that higher rated batteries and higher torque starter motors have been tried by people in the past with little success. The funny thing is that, on the Daytona Facebook page there is a guy with a very similar problem on his bike and he says he has been through and replaced just about everything, had valves checked etc. and still not solved the problem. It sounds like this is some tricky, dodgy little bugger of a fault to solve. My suspicion is that something is messing with the ECM and, as a result it is failing in it's management duties but doesn't realise it. Sort of like every manager I have ever worked for!
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One of the few bits of stuff I've got for the bike this year that I've had time to fit is a Lithium battery. I don't think it would alone solve your woes but I, a def cheapskate, would recommend it over a lead acid. I've always found with Jap electrics of yore that the cranking would prioritise Over the ignition so with a weak battery you could spin but not spark. I always started my Z1000 on the kick from cold, 'leccy foot was a waste of space and only used if it stalled in traffic for a rapid restart.

I've never been entirely happy about kickstarts being removed, part of the ceremony of the things ;)
 
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MartytheMartian

MartytheMartian

Legendary Knight
Is the Lithium battery a straight plug in @chas ? Not that I'm thinking about fitting one but I seem to recall reading something along the lines of 'Do Not fit a Lithium battery to a bike not set up to use one without doing x. y and z'. I'm not saying that's the case but it's just something I seem to recall noticing somewhere.

Edit: It now comes to me that I think it was about the new Reg/rectifier I fitted and the warning was 'not to be used with Lithium batteries'.
 
DD67

DD67

The Peace Keeper
Staff member
MartytheMartian said:
Is the Lithium battery a straight plug in @chas ? Not that I'm thinking about fitting one but I seem to recall reading something along the lines of 'Do Not fit a Lithium battery to a bike not set up to use one without doing x. y and z'. I'm not saying that's the case but it's just something I seem to recall noticing somewhere.

Edit: It now comes to me that I think it was about the new Reg/rectifier I fitted and the warning was 'not to be used with Lithium batteries'.
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Plus if you use a battery maintainer like an Optimate etc. You need one specifically designed for lithium batteries.
 
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